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Bar Camp Bank Forum Archives /

January 24, 2007

ThomasPurves is announcing on his blog his coming to BarCamp:BarCampBank3 on his way to Lift07. Welcome in France Tom!!

I've started to post comments on different blogs referring to BarCampBank. For example, I posted a comment on Guy Kawasaki's blog pointing at our site. Please barcampbankers, do not hesitate to spread the word by using the guerilla marketing that proved so successful for the French branch. -- FredericBaud

I posted on Smartmobs, P2P foundation, Social Synergy (My blog SocialSynergy was just quoted in CBS.com today, so maybe lots of people wil see this --SamRose

Great and congratulations for the quote!!! When speaking of leaving crumbs everywhere like we do to let people come to our site, I'm always wondering if I should use the word PinkoMarketing or guerilla marketing. . -- FredericBaud

Agree with Frederic. Sam deserves our EtoilePinko (more peaceful than guerilla!) Will drop it later after lunch -- ChristopheDucamp

January 19, 2007

Our (nearly) monthly visioconference BarCamp:BarCampBankFlashMeeting5 will take place on Wednesday, 31 Jan 2007 (9:00 PM CET, 8:00 PM UK, 3:00 PM EST, 12:00 AM PST).

Book 90 minutes of your Wednesday evening -or afternoon for our overseas attendees - and get prepared to an interesting session fully dedicated to P2PVenture !

Join BarCamp:BarCampBankFlashMeeting5 to share your ideas about project screening with FredericBaud, SamRose and the community ! --JeanChristopheCapelli

January 16, 2007

Vote for the time and date of the BarCamp:BarCampBankFlashMeeting5 is now open on Doodle. -- FredericBaud

About Classification : Categories and Topics in BCB

Context : A Question of BarCamp:ColinHenderson dropped on BarCamp:BarCampBank3 has moved here and is now dropped on BarCamp:VRM

Maybe it is a good time to start thinking of the different categories we want within BarCampBank. Personally, I would qualify Tontine and P2PVenture as workgroups. In the French section, we used to qualify OpenIdentity as a workgroup. Just like developping applied understanding of Microformats for the bank, OpenIdentity is not really a WorkGroup in the same sense than Tontine and P2PVenture. So we should find a word to characterize branches within BarCampBank that discuss and adapt the work of other groups to the specificities of banking and finance. Maybe something like AbsorptionGroup (see Absorptive Capacity. -- FredericBaud

Hi Frédéric, Agree to think of categories within BarCampBank. Still not sure we should move here contributions from non-members like previous Colin's constribution (due to ProWiki:RegistrationFeatures not still obvious from external contributors coming from blogosphere and not used to wikiculture). I've waited two days and no reactions from Colin. That's the main reason why I've now moved ColinHenderson power-questions directly on BarCamp:VRM. May be I'm wrong ? My opinion is Colin used to write on BarCamp-canonical wiki (see BarCamp:ColinHenderson). And the VRM project could be a very interesting approach of a first intercommunity experience in our WikiNet : VRM could be related to BarCampBank + MicroFormats + IdentitéEnLigne + PinkoMarketing. Still not understood AbsorptionGroup. Could you be more explicit. With an example : How would you classify "VRM" which is according to me a real "cross-pollinisation" subject with obvious specificities for banking and finances. Regards -- ChristopheDucamp January 19, 2007 9:28 CET

I have written down first versions of what could be definitions for WorkGroup and AbsorptionGroup. For me P2PLending or P2PVenture are typical BarCampBank's workgroups: They develop within the BarCampBank's MissionStatement. PinkoMarketing, Microformats and VRM for their own sake are different groups. We could have an AbsorptionGroup called for example BankingVRM (which is in fact the subject of Colin's post) which would be in charge of gathering understanding of things like MicroFormats and see how this can be applied in the world of banking and finance. Same things applies to the other technologies or movements mentioned. -- FredericBaud

Nice Shoot Frédéric, I love your suggestion ! Think it deserves an EtoileDeGrange. Really enthusiast to help on some AbsorptionGroup like this BankingVRM which could be detached on a new Branch. Bravo. -- ChristopheDucamp

January 13, 2007

This note just to give an insight on a lot of vibrance that is happening on the French branch of the BarCampBank. After a post in French on Patrick Amiel's blog speaking of P2PVenture, a lot of posts and actions have sprout in different places. Net result is that BarCamp:BarCampBank3 got a lot of exposure in the French blogosphere and we are on track to get a really good meeting on Feb 3. Different contacts have been made with French pundits and entrepreneurs and we are excited by the sequel that we can give to this. I think that we should very soon start a workgroup within BarCampBank (in English would be my personal choice) to start speaking and refining a full-blown business model for P2P investment in startups. In the way, I hope we'll put in place a structure capable of financing this project of creating a platform for matching entrepeneurs' need for capital and investment opportunities for ordinary people. I'm just waiting for a start for creating a P2PVenture branch on this wiki and get going in the process of eleborating in the open a entire disruptive model of financing. -- FredericBaud

Way to go! I agree that we should start working on the full blown business model. ProjectScreening is a great part of a foundation for this, of course.

Also, check out what I have worked out, using open source software at http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/ExtinctionLevelEvent/ProjectPointSystem here we are using a point system, and using WikiCalc to both report to revenue earners, and exporting from WikiCalc to paypal to mass pay right from WikiCalc:


(that is a mockup report of the model). I am working on a GUI that will allow people to sign up for the project more easily, and to test scenarios of how much they would make if they participated in the project to different degrees.

Similarly, we could work out these types of tools for both a project screening, and investment suuport system, such as what you describe above. Drupal's ecommerce system might be one candidate for modification into such a system, although it really is currently designed to be more of a transaction system.

Or, conversely, we could build it ourselves. We could actually use possibly modified wiki software, like MoinMoin, which has secure login capability, combined with WikiCalc for numbers tracking and reporting. At least to start out with. Plus, perhaps some sort of front end user system. This is something that we can experiment with in the OpenContentBusinessModels WikiHive if you'd like. We can set up imaginary scenarios, and test out different types of set ups. -- SamRose

Hi Sam, I crossed the bridge and created the P2PVenture branch. We can now use this space to start talking peer-to-peer investments in startups. I created a couple of default pages to get the menu and side bar, but I still have a lot of work (and learning about the possibilities of ProWiki) to have a full functional site. I'll probably won't have much time this week-end because of familly events, but I'll do what I can and continue later this week. Anyone, feel free to start growing this new branch.

Sam, would that be possible to make http://p2pventure.barcampbank.com point to http://www.wikiservice.at/fractal/wikidev.cgi?EN/P2PVenture ? Thx. -- FredericBaud

January 11, 2007

Sorry for this low S/N ratio : just deleted a shallow-page previously linked to french content. Mathieu, I know you've been and will come back here - like me - as an occasional lurker/contributor : could we suggest to respect this peaceful workspace ? In the future, feel at ease to drop any contribution here in english. English is the official working language for this Branch where BarCampBank members could suggest us any conversation process. Keep on the good work. -- ChristopheDucamp January 11, 2007 7:49 CET

January 10, 2007

After posting the same link in Tontine/Forum in French, I would like to draw the attention to an article in The Economist on the increase of volatility in the revenue for US households. I first posted in the Tontine/Forum, because I think this can be a good business case on how P2P lending can prove to be a good way to smooth this change in revenue. The article did not conclude if this increased volatility was endured because of business conditions or if this was a voluntary choice by households linked to wealth effects (if they feel wealthy enough, some households may forgo some revenue for other activities: like leaving temporarily a job for a young mother to care for her newborn child). -- FredericBaud

Thanks Frederic. How, exactly, do you see P2PLending as being able to smooth short term volitile revenue fluctuations?

I was thinking that one way it can smooth it is that it could allow people to create new revenue streams to themselves by frequently issuing many small micro-loans in a P2PLending system. This is what many people are doing right now on sites like Prosper, and Zopa.

However, in the US, I truly believe that many people are currently only able to maintain their heavy-consuming lifestyles by going into and carrying consumer debt in the $3000-$4000.00 range. Many people are finding that this is undesireable, because if they run into financial trouble, and need to resort to borrowing more money, they often cannot, because they are already carrying too much debt. This includes people as young as in the early 20's age-wise. So, just to get by, we see people eating up what I will call their PersonalFinancialBuffer. This PersonalFinancialBuffer is the DebtToIncomeRatio that banks look at when they lend people money. But, I think realistically it is even more, it's really your total budget and expenses to maintain your current LevelOfLifeStyleExistence.

So, these people are filing bankruptcy, or hiding out from collection agencies, etc. P2P lending may be able to help some of them, as we see with people who are clever enough to try and consolidate loans through Prosper, often when regular banks and credit unions will not finance them.

Yet, (and I know I have probably beat this to death in one way or another), I think that these people need a way to create revenue streams that prevent them from having to borrow money at all, at least when it comes to maintaining LevelOfLifeStyleExistence. People should be able to avoid dipping into their HomeEquity, avoid eating away at their PersonalFinancialBuffer. One way that they can definitely do this is by investing in others by P2PLending out many small amounts of money over time, for sure. Another way is by direct investing that is not loans, or by pooling money to solve problems with like-interest people (ConsumerAggregation). -- SamRose

Smoothing the volatility depends on the cause of it. If this is because a wife is taking a leave to care for a new born, P2P lending could help the couple to get a fraction of her revenue for a period and to pay back to the community when she resumes working. This will smooth the difference of revenue between the different periods and reduce the observed volatility. If this is because someone is out of a job, this can be a way to pave the needs until the person finds a new job. Now, if volatily is caused by other factors (like stock markets), P2P lending won't probably an appropriate mechanism for reducing income variations. -- FredericBaud

January 06, 2007

I added a new page BarCampBankLicense. I've been thinking that it may be a good time to start discussing this. As a first step, I would propose to Sam that we release the ProjectScreening presentation under the BarCampBankLicense. Actually, I had more specific mind-boggling thoughts when dealing with business models. In particular, I was wondering how I should deal with my employer if I released some business models within BarCampBank. I may like to be able to present them with the ideas to see if we could implement them, but I may also like to stay free to offer the ideas to other people if my employer decided not to implement them, but felt they have the right to prevent me doing so. As a more pratical example, I think that the Tontine should define a safe harbor so that we feel comfortable with any contributions that happen in the process of creating this decisively novel business model. -- FredericBaud

I can only speak in a North American context, so this is likely not universally applicable, but ...

  • Effectively (but not necessarily legally, at this time), anything that is posted on the internet is public domain. While this statement will still be hotly debated by those with various vested interests, it is already becomming apparent from the debates about "corporate blogging policies" that employers can do very little to restrict the activities of their employees.
  • Depending on the nature of your emplyer-employee relationship, it may be effective to give your employer a written "Right Of First Refusal" that includes whatever terms you think may be needed. You could, for example, include conditions such as ...
    • You reserve the unilateral right to offer the ideas on the open market after a 90 day 'evaluation' period or a response indicating that the empolyer has no interest in pursuing the ideas during the next 180 days; whichever comes first.
    • ...
-- HansWobbe

That's interesting. In the context of France, where legal things are driven more by matter of law than contracts, things are supposedly even more in favor of the employee. By definition, any intellectual production remains the property of its author. France had to create a specific | article L-113-9 which states that "for software", ownership is transfered to the employer when the software was created during the course of the work or on instructions from the employer. Now, this is the law and the umbrella can be a good way to have anyone be in a better position to claim that the rights of an external entity (BarCampBank) are opposable to their employer's intentions more than their own rights can impress the employer.

In fact, I think the problem is more accute for the collaborative creation of a new business model. I don't think we have legal precedence nor basic laws that can apply to this new setting. Usually, people create new business models around the kitchen table with a couple of close relations. There are already legal issues with employers in this case. But here we say that we want to do that in the open and have anyone interested participate in the process. We should find a safe harbor that makes clear that the collective work has been produced with the possibility to be exploited without having to deal with all the potential contributors (identified or anonymous) and/or their employers. To parallel your remark, when locally advisable, it may be good for anyone wanting to contribute to BarCampBank to let her employer know that they are going to do so and let their employer a 90 day period to offer a compensation if they want them to prevent them doing it.

-- FredericBaud


MattisManzel: yo, happy new one. Hadn't been following. Sry. This format for the day-entries sorts better and is typed faster actually.

Hi Mattis, Happy New Year to you too. For the format, I don't know if we really need to sort things in a page since they don't really move around. Then, having month in full letter maybe makes thing more human readable. I then decided that following the format of the wiki engine might be a sound approach. This is where I noticed that we used to put the comma at the wrong place. So I finally decided to comply with Prowiki's format.

Anyway, in letters or digits, I wish you again a Happy New Year 2007 or two thousand and seven.

-- FredericBaud

January, 03 2007

PierrePhilippeCormeraie posted on BarCamp:BarCampBank3 the link to BankWatch's Microformats as information brokers. I'm sure we will be speaking extensively about microformats during BarCamp:BarCampBank3. I sent an invitation to Colin asking him to come join us on our new site, I hope Colin will be available to help us build BarCampBank's content. -- FredericBaud

I've just got an answer from Colin to my mail. Colin happens to be attending LIFT07 on Feb 7. If any barcampbanker is going to LIFT07, I think this is a fantastic opportunity to meet face to face with Colin. I've mentioned BarCamp:BarCampBank3 on Feb 3 in Paris to Colin in case he happens to be around at the time. We would definitely warmly welcome him to our reunion and let him comment extensively on Microformats as information brokers. -- FredericBaud

I contacted Tom Purves who is very active on barcamp in Toronto and who even proposed a BarCamp:BusinessCamp there. Tom is also attending LIFT07 and could possibly join us on BarCamp:BarCampBank3. That would be really great! Would be fantastic if we have people taking the opportunity of their travel to Geneva to join us in Paris. If anyone happens to have personal contacts ( list of participants to LIFT07) attending LIFT07, do not hesitate to send a kind invitation to BarCamp:BarCampBank3. -- FredericBaud

The aim of BarCampBank is to foster innovations and the creation of new business models in the world of banking and finance.

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